Tancredo walks out in middle of MSNBC interview

Go Markos go! At least he served his country. Tancredo was always a big blowhard draftdodger. He was losing the debate so he found an excuse to get off camera. I hope they dont invite him back. I dont think I can stand another of his tantrums.

Tancredo, what a loser.

No, FredC! They should challenge him to come back every night. Ed could make it his sign off. Invite him to come back with the names of those veterans who complain about the VA system.

He only speaks to rich campaign donors, so I'm sure there are one or two of his billionare friends who have served and will be glad to spew more lies about the VA.

I hope they dont invite him back.

He makes good theater, though. Such drama!

Why did'nt he(Tancredo) stand up and take it like a man....

Because he isn't a man... Like almost all the Bush administration "warriors", Tancredo snuck out of military service.

Talks the talk... but doesn't walk the walk...

Bravo, Moulitsas!

That's because he's only a man by a technicality!

This reminds me of a line from Young Frankenstein that might apply to Tancredo:

But you have to remember
that a worm -- with very few exceptions
-- is not a human being. Dr. Frankenstein

Anothr conservative trying to claim a monopoly on all things military when he himself did all he could to avoid service.

Did you catch him claiming all the veterans he talks with denounce the V.A.??

Same old claptrap conservatives get away with all the time. Very good to see him smacked down like the lieing P.O.S. he is.

These guys demonstrate the same characteristic: they would never subject themselves to the same conditions they expect of others. It comes from the delusion that they are so valuable that they should not be wasted in war and should not suffer the same lack of priviliege and exposure to danger as the rest of us. Cheney got 5 deferments and despite all their harping about the military, Dick and W quietly imposed many hardships on our veterans.

He ducked out of the show, just like he ducked out of military service.

I have no idea who Tancredo is, but it looked to me like the younger guy insulted him, refused to apologize for the insult, and that's why Tancredo left.

Hello Tri in TN, can you quote the insult you are talking about?

He mentioned Tancredo's draft deferment in '69 considered to have been granted due to Tancredo having been treated for depression.

FYI - Tancredo at the time was a proponent of the Vietnam war. Far as I'm concerned he was then and still is a chickenhawk.

He mentioned Tancredo's draft deferment in '69 considered to have been granted due to Tancredo having been treated for depression.

If this is a lie, it is an insult and Tancredo has every right to be offended.

But if this is the truth, Tancredo has to live with his past and is certainly not well placed to pull any "rightful indignation" stunt on a veteran.

Tancredo was for war?

If so, then he is another POS that I despise for advocating war as long as others fight it while he sits safely as home wrapping himself in the flag of patriotism!

Why do these hypocrites get elected in the first place?

Tri in TN, regarding post #5

"I have no idea who Tancredo is, but it looked to me like the younger guy insulted him, refused to apologize for the insult, and that's why Tancredo left."

Tancredo is a guy who supported the Vietnam War, but managed to duck the draft because he was SAD; and so he ran away from fighting in a war that he supported.

The younger guy was a veteran who called Tancredo out, and when Tancredo was confronted with the truth - she...... ah, I mean he, ran away from the statement of his past history.

So when and if anyone talks to Tancredo, be very careful not to bring up his past or else he will become very frightened, and run away like a little girl.

Ah, the truth can be so insulting. Tancredo dodged the draft and then pretends to support vets while voting against them.

Um... the word "hypocrite" comes to mind...

Note to my fellow Viners,

I would like to revise a part of my statement on post #5.5:

"be very careful not to bring up his past or else he will become very frightened, and run away like a little girl."

Upon reflection I have come to realize that; it was not right for me to post that. I am not one who is afraid to admit when he is wrong. I feel very ashamed for that part of my comment, and I want to offer my sincerest and most respectful apology to little girls everywhere, the are certainly much more honorable and braver then that miscreant coward Tancredo could ever be.

Bob Nelson..Self winding Hypocrisy at it's finest! This describes not only Lil' Tommy T. but the entire Republican/Conservative Cabal of ignorance!

The actual insult was when Tancredo suggested that the fellow visit with the veterans to see how they like the V.A.,and was not aware that he was speaking to a veteran(ouch)

I'm a veteran with twelve years and despise scum like Tancredo.He gets on t.v and pretends to care about veterans health care and well being.Where was that concern during VietNam?Many thousands of our troops recieved little or no support upon returning home.

This man has no right speaking for me or any veteran as long as he wears the badge of cowardice.

Tancredo at the time was a proponent of the Vietnam war. Far as I'm concerned he was then and still is a chickenhawk.

Independent Ed

I watched that shortened version and it's clear that Tancredo can't handle the truth. Just another ChickenHawk - Chicken$hit like Bush and Cheney.

As a Republican student activist Tancredo spoke in support of the Vietnam War. After graduating from the University of Northern Colorado he became eligible to serve in Vietnam in June 1969. Tancredo has said he went for his physical, telling doctors he had been treated for depression, and eventually got a "1-Y" deferment.

Interviews with more than two dozen people - including current and past colleagues of Tancredo, immigration activists, political analysts and strategists - show Tancredo is not easily discounted as an extremist loudmouth.

"Right after 9/11, Tom Tancredo was pushing many of the ideas that bona fide white-supremacist groups were pushing," said Mark Potok, director of intelligence for the Southern Poverty Law Center in Alabama, which monitors hate groups.

Immigrants who cling to their language, heritage and loyalties while living in the U.S. threaten to turn the nation into a "Tower of Babel," he said.

He rails against what he calls "the cult of multiculturalism," or "people who are intent upon dividing America up into cultural enclaves, who are intent upon essentially minimizing the importance of Western civilization."

Those who wish Tancredo had never entered politics can blame Fidel Castro. Tancredo was in eighth grade at St. Catherine's Elementary School in Denver when the Cuban dictator came to power. He took turns acting as Castro and as an interviewer for a class assignment.

"I loved doing this. Maybe it was the theatricality of it," he said. "Maybe that's what got me into politics in general."

Recently he suggested that the U.S. should consider bombing Mecca in response to an Islamic terrorist strike on U.S. soil; demanded that the government drop the design for a Pennsylvania memorial to Sept. 11 victims because its crescent shape is a symbol of Islam; voted against federal aid to Hurricane Katrina victims, calling Louisiana officials corrupt; and said that New Mexico was improperly using money obtained from declaring a state of emergency over immigration.

For more of a great article on Tom see link below:

http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_3255494

If what you say is true then I applaud Mr. Trancredo. Louisiana politicians are corruplt. They have mismanaged monies given them for repairing or rebuilding their levies for years. This was documented and brought to light when the storm broke and the levies failed. They are directly responsible for the many deaths attributed to Katrina. New Orleans is going to sink, in the long run because it is below sea level and nothing they are doing can resolve that, short of moving a mountain down there and building up the ground to absorb water.

New Mexico has long had a history of mob connections so it does not surprise me that monies are being used improperly. The state has done little to help the indigenous peoples of the state, while doing nothing to help curtail the illegals who use the state as a stopping ground before inundating the rest of America.

Bombing Mecca is really out there and I cannot applaud that action, if that is the truth. More people would be hurt, in their hearts, than the terrorists who thrive on violence and mayhem. I am not certain that that is his intention, overall.

Muslim religion should not be the overriding feature of an emblem remembering our fallen from 9/11. This nation is and has been more christian than not, the features of christianity, self respect, faith in yourself and your abilities, and an open heart, are inherent in our nation's people. We must hold to them, even as we turn from religion, a pity that.

To those who are villifying this man; what a pity that you have not found a better use for your words than trying to bring down Mr. Tancredo.

judi,

Tancredo has brought himself down so don't come around here laying that on people who rightfully despise that worm.

Go check his voting record on veterans issues and come back and see us.

I agree and I am a Baby Boomer white male. Only occasionally toxic.

Uncle:

Me, too. It's the Chickenhawk part that's the poisonous catalyst.

I am glad he no longer serves in the US House.

You're glad? I'm in his district! That piece of scum was an embarrassment to thinking people in CO.

I am glad he no longer serves in the US House.

You're glad? I'm in his district! That piece of scum was an embarrassment to thinking people in CO.

Watch out Keeping it Real!...all of these small mined righties out there are going to point their booger stained fingers at you and proclaim your a "Ditto-Head! But We know better because you ARE better than the average mentally and morally challenged sheeple who put an "R" before their name.

keeping it real..I must clarify..I did not mean that you are Republican I meant that your better than "a" republican when I typed...better than the average mentally and morally challenged sheeple who put an "R' before their name.

Repo:

Yeah, I would have walked out too.

Are you also a Chickenhawk draft dodger?

Tancredo was saying, "Veterans are always telling me...". So Moulitsas says, "Hey, I am a veteran! Don't give me that bullpuckey!" And then Moulitsas went on to count coup on Tancredo for supporting a war... as long as others have to do the fighting.

Look at all the macho-men who led America into a useless war that is still going on today. Not a single veteran among them. Anyone who thinks thats a coincidence... isn't a veteran.

So, what Tancredo is saying that millionaire vets did not use the VA. You need to understand, if you didn't give thousands of dollars to his campaign, he didn't speak to you. He wouldn't even show up at community meetings or debates without being paid.

My husband served for more than 20 years and he didn't support that piece of scum. I've spent more than 50 years as a dependent and I campaigned for his opponents.

Karri,

Why don't you tell us what you really think of him?

;-)))

Repoman, what is the true from your point o view, an insult? do you feel insulted when some one tell you the true? only if you are a right wing nut republican (Rich and white and maybe from the shout) cause they have they OWN true, sadly they really believed they true, which is far away from it, it is really the true, kind of confusing no? are you offended by the true? or the only true is "your" true? maybe, but are you blind and deft too and haven't really see the interview?

jfxgillis, nope, not a draft dodger, in fact I am an active duty service member with 6 deployments and that has no real bearing on the conversation.

While I do not much like Tancredo there is no reason for someone to construct a personal attack against someone because they were disqualified from military service. A person can assume he faked it but only he and his doctor really know the truth. If he suffers from depression, like millions of Americans, then he should not serve in the armed forces.

When someone uses an insult to validate their point of view they lose credibility. There are a number of things the other person could have said. He chose to make his point using an insult about a socially stigmatized condition. He could have said, "Mr. Tnacredo, you have never served and yet you speak as though you are the foremost authority. I am a vet and quite pleased with my care". Even that in ancedotal. We all know people who are pleased as puch with their insurance. Some on medicaid, private, VA..ect...we all know people who are getting screwed by their insurance providers...medicaid, medicare, va and the private insurance providers.

Comments that are used to insult people who disagree with you only derail the debate from what is really important. The merits of the reform as offered by the united state congress.

Proudindependant, Clearly you know nothing about me. I do not know what the color of my skin would have to do with anything and I fell disinclined to reveal why demographic information...as I have consistently done in the past.

Am I rich? I think so and it has nothing to do with money. I do not link the richness of my life with the level of wealth I have accumalted. However since you know I am in the military it should not take you long to come to the conclusion I am not wealthy.

Repo:

nope, not a draft dodger, in fact I am an active duty service member with 6 deployments

Then why would anyone call you a Chickenhawk thereby causing you to walk out? And of course it has a bearing because Tancredo, who is NOT a veteran, presumed to speak for veterans.

When someone uses an insult to validate their point of view they lose credibility

It wasn't an insult--it was the truth, which is why that pussy stormed off.

We all know people who are pleased as puch with their insurance. Some on medicaid, private, VA..ect...we all know people who are getting screwed by their insurance providers...medicaid, medicare, va and the private insurance providers.

You know, that's a good point. And maybe Tancredo would've been better off saying that instead of what he did say.

As for Markos being polite in his response, have you watched these political gasbag shows? You don't get points for politeness.

Tri in TN, are you suggesting that the young VETERAN should respect the old DRAFT DODGER? What he said to Tancredo was the truth. He also challenged Tancredo to name those vets who disparage the VA system. What's wrong with that? Whenever anyone tries to pull that crap on me in any sort of debate on any subject, I do the same thing: Name them. It shuts them up pronto.

jfxgillis, I did not realize you were not going to read what I wrote. Read, comprehend, and reply. Until then, I am done with you.

Repo:

I quoted you three times. Did you think I just closed my eyes and selected text to copy-and-paste without reading it?

You know what? It was a dick move for Markos to drop that draft-dodger thing on Tancredo, but you know what else? Tancredo's a dick. And so many of the Republicans have been such dicks for so long, and as recently as this morning, that a bunch of us on the other side of the aisle have recently taken to cheering on folks like Markos and Congressman Alan Grayson when they finally start throwing dickery right back.

If Tancredo doesn't want to get treated like a dick, he should stop acting like one.

Finally ...

A person can assume he faked it but only he and his doctor really know the truth.

Yeah. I get it. I'm old enough for the Vietnam draft myself, although I did not get drafted. Unlike Tancredo, however, I'm also not dick enough to presume to speak for veterans of a war service in which I avoided.

Repo maybe I'm missing something here but why would any one want to pussyfoot around with Tancredo. It's not play nice time with him and hasn't been since he came on the scene. He has used his office for personal pleasure and for dimming the lights of intelligence for his district.

Be pleasant to him, talk to him nicely. I would love to give him ass chewing # 4. After I got done he would feel like a vet one that has had to clean the crapper buckets.

Tancredo is proof that what you say is true re the "real world", steven.

The country doesn't live on cable T.V. or talk radio where modern day right wing extremism was conceived and lives. We live in the real world where ridiculous views like Tancredo's are exposed for what they are.

:) I personally would be well severed if I did not hang out so much here. In the REAL WORLD I am normally center/center left, but after reading the Wingnut crap posted here I end up sounding like a Left wing screamer.

Thanks for posting.

Welcome to the club.

In some ways, you have to feel sorry for ol' Tommy T. He's never had to face someone who is smart and thinks for themselves. The real world is not Tommy's forte.

I am normally center/center left, but after reading the Wingnut crap posted here I end up sounding like a Left wing screamer.

Me too. Sometimes I wonder who the pinko is at my keyboard. The wingnuts are just too much fun to play with, though.

The wingnuts are just too much fun to play with, though.

As Jon Stewart said, "this is like shooting fish in a barrel."

Progressives come off as extreme only because the conservatives in control of the Republican party have hammered on that theme for decades. The "Big Lie" is very effective as a political tool.

The tool of malcontents and traitors, but effective.

Some liberals are extreme, though.

I recently attended a green engineering conference, already making me one of the more conservative people in the room. But one lady kept talking about population control. What the hell?

Or the oceanography teacher I had back in college who insisted that urban dwellers had to be forced to buy electric cars. When presented with Greenpeace rejects like that, I use economic theory like a bludgeon.

Those who lack perspective are the ones most convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

It is true there are extremists in every walk of life.

Our challenge, as a nation, is for the middle to stop allowing the extremes to dominate the discussion.

They always say time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself.
- Andy Warhol

excellent post...and commentary. To me this sordid incident is but a reflection of the deeper sentiment among some of those on the right; that they are somehow different/better than the average man. That they can operate under a different set of rules.

We must continue to remind them their not and they cant.

Peace

You have no idea how gratified I am to see a liberal come down on the side of military service. YES! Finally liberals understand the cowardice of Bill Clinton, Barack Hussein Obama and all the other people in his administration!

Obama was a child when the draft was ended. When he was old enough to serve, there was no active war and no draft. This is different than someone paying a psychiatrist for some bogus excuse -- especially when that person was in favor of a war in which they refused to serve. And, if he truly had a mental health issue, why did he oppose funding for mental health issues?

Spirit keep showing your lack of knowledge. Military service is open to all, even you, Tancredo chose not to use his right nor has he supported Vets.

You can't spin Tancredo. He is a certified loon.

What have you done for your country?

Spirit

Somehow, and I don't know how you could have overlooked it, you left out "FIVE derement Cheney, Ronald "stateside"Reagan, John "I may look like a soldier, but I only played one in the movies" Wayne, and a host of other conservatives in your claim of conservative monopoly on all things patriotic and the military. I know this must have been accidental, since you'd want to be fair...

Care to re-post??

The spirit, or the spit, I believe your are a supporter of Dick Cheney, George Yes Man, D. rumsfeldd and Cia., aren't you. Mr. President Obama worked for poor people knowing what poverty means, Bill rise from the bottom to the tap by himself also, what about the millionaires or billionaires that formerly where named?, if ideology do not blind you, why you do not name them in your comment, are you really offended by cowardice or just a sore looser?

The spirit and we are all trying to understand you but I for one will not try and risk a mental fugue. You have bounded yourself in a NUTshell and have accounted yourself a king or queen of infantile space!..BTW you still have not explained what you are the "spirit of. If you are the "spirit" of religion then you are an insult to religion, if you are the "spirit" of America(ns) then you are an insult to us all, if you are the "spirit "of humanity then you owe an apology to all humans past,present and future. And NO infantile was not a typo...

TheSpirit: There are plenty of liberals out here who think the draft was a good thing and that it should be reinstated for ALL U.S residents, not just males. It would do all young people a world of good to serve something beyond their own interests for a couple of years. For one thing, after the Vietnam debacle, a draft would make it more difficult for Congress to send young people off to war. It's too easy to do the wrong thing with an all volunteer army.

Absolutely!

We should 'draft' all high school seniors for a minimum of 1 year of public service. That could include the military, volunteering, peace corp, etc.

Far too many people grow up in their home towns and have never experienced how different people live and work. This should open their eyes to the world beyond what they've known while instilling the importance of their participation in their communities.

We should 'draft' all high school seniors for a minimum of 1 year of public service. That could include the military, volunteering, peace corp, etc.

You're starting to sound like Obama, that wingnut. :-)

I only wish I could sound half as intelligent as Obama.

So, I guess I'm on my way if I'm starting to sound like him! Thanks for the compliment. ;)

Tripper The Beast, post #11.12:

I only wish I could sound half as intelligent as Obama.

"Get a teleprompter and you could."

All politicians who make speech's use teleprompters.

All talking heads on TV- yes, even those on Fox Spin News; use teleprompters.

So what's your point?

Wow, I have such a totally different perception of him. Probably because I tend to agree with him more than you do. Or, it could be that he pauses to think before he speaks. I know that's not what we're used to from the POTUS, but I've always seen that as a trait of intelligence.

It would do all young people a world of good to serve something beyond their own interests for a couple of years.

I have to disagree with you on this point. An unlimited fighting force is just too great of temptation for power crazed leaders to resist. They could care less about who is serving and the wealthy and privileged would find a way out anyway. If we spent half the money that we spend on war on peace instead, perhaps we wouldn't be fighting wars constantly. We have made our own bed and we will have to suffer the consequences so long as we continue to play the role of world cop. We always come out losers, but we will keep pretending that we're winning. The wars are nothing more than another con that the government constantly puts on the backs of America's youth. We are not preparing for our future. We are preparing for our demise.

Tripper The Beast, post #11.14:

"Simple. It is when he's reading a speech that is when he sounds intelligent. When he's talking without one...not so much."

That's your perception, and of course you're entitled to it. But it is obvious that the man is intelligent; and his intelligence has nothing to do with teleprompters, that's probably Fox Propaganda poo - poo, that you are repeating, instead of your own original observation.

Now if you remember Buffoon Bush; he sounded like an idiot, with or without teleprompters, there was a hopeless idiot Buffoon.

Oneforall, public service is not necessarily military, but even if it were, Congress would be kept in line by fear of the voters. If we knew that ALL our children were in line to go to war, I believe support for war would decline.

Tripper The Beast, post #11.19

"he does not come across anywhere nearly as intelligent when he has to think on his feet."

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinions and assumptions. Since you've been generous with sharing your opinion on this subject, I was curious to know what your opinion is regarding President Obamas ability to think on his feet as compared to........ ah......oh I don't know, let's say....George Bush for instance. How do you think the Buffoon would stack up against President Obama in the sounding intelligent while thinking on his feet Department?

"Sorry, but those are my own obeseravations."

I'm sure they are.

"I don't watch Fox News."

I'm sure you don't.

}:-]~

sms29s66

Oneforall, public service is not necessarily military, but even if it were, Congress would be kept in line by fear of the voters. If we knew that ALL our children were in line to go to war, I believe support for war would decline.

History doesn't support your argument. The U.S. is constantly embroiled in pointless conflicts which do little more than destroy lives and consume vital resources. And since when has Congress feared the voters? They constantly fund these wars, kiss the a$$e$ of corporate America, and refuse to hold the rich and powerful politicos and bankers accountable for their crimes against the people. Besides that, how could the U.S. possibly afford universal conscription? It is totally naive to believe that the U.S. Government would not use whatever resources are left to their their disposal. When those resources are human lives it is dangerous to give them universal access. Most members of the National Guard never thought they would end up on the front lines in Iraq, but Bush and Cheney viewed these patriots as nothing more than warm bodies to serve their insatiable taste for aggression. It was reported that before the end of their administration, Liz Cheney was working for a think tank whose primary purpose was to expand the wars into Syria and Iran. Some people view war as opportunity, especially when their lives are not on the line. As long as war is an option, peace will not exist.

During the Vietnam conflict, it was common for people to pay a psychiatrist to get them out of the draft. It was a very contentious issue and many doctors were willing to do just that. My husband chose to serve, because it was his duty, but really resented his rich friends who paid to get out of the draft.

A valid argument can be made that any soldier in a foxhole under fire is "clinically depressed".

How many clinically depressed people answered their draft notices and went off to war anyway? We'll never know, but I'd wager it's in the thousands. Depression was a "new" malady in the 60's, and people like Tancredo used it to avoid combat service in Viet Nam, Dubya used family connections, while others just moved to Canada. To say Bill Clinton is in the same category as Tancredo is to purposely avoid the fact that Bill Clinton didn't build his political carreer on advocation for war while doing all he can to avoid war. He recieved a deferement like thousands and thousands of other college students, while not advocating for war. BIG difference, conservatives.

The bulk of conservatives are all too eager to call for war - but stand aside and offer to hold the coats of others while others do the fighting and dieing.

Depression was a "new" malady in the 60's

It wasn't new. It was stigmatized, so it was a source of shame and left untreated for the most part.

Here Tancredo showed us what a real coward he is by running away from the truth when confronted by a real veteran with real facts.

Pretty good summary...

He actually said THAT?? What a scumbag!!

Yep, he did. I can think of a dozen different ways he could have explained his vote that would not have insulted his constituents. (But, he did get re-elected, several times. I never forgot and worked on most of the campaigns of the people who ran against him.)

That is a capital idea!

Stop the lies! Every time a consevative tries to claim ownership of all things patriotic, just give em' a verbal smackdown.

If Tancredo and his type were around during the American Revolution, they'd be sending love letters to George III.

The American revolutionaries were the "liberals" of the day.

AZPADDY you are 100% correct but don't try telling that FACT to the right! They will act like you just crapped on their 1000$ loafers and kicked their dogs.In their alleged minds it was "God fearing Republican Tea-spillin Patriots that started the Revolution and gave us the REAL American dream. Even though the Republicans they describe in their heads did not appear for another 92 years or so.

Goldwater? Umm...he passed away years ago. Along with the last legitimate Republican party.

(Looks to the ground and shakes head) So true, so true. We could use Goldwater right now.

The right would kick Goldwater out of his party. Heck the grandkids won't associate with it.

You're probably right jaywow.

bert..the name is Barack Hussien Obama and don't you forget that you troll! And a pimple on his ass would be more of a man than you!

When Barry Goldwater retired from government service he voiced his support for gays in the military. The local Republican party threatened to remove his name from the party headquarters building, and when told of this he repied: " I don't give a damn what they do...they can go to hell!"

They don't make Republicans like that anymore. Too bad.

They don't make Republicans like that anymore.

I know AZPADDY, and it sucks!!!

He also said that religion shouldn't be practiced in politics.

Barry Goldwater, the man modern day conservatives would consider a "RINO", wouldn't recognize the G.O.P. today.

LOL @ schroed cat, his nickname is barry and that's what I call him. Just like some people call Bush, dubya. And if it's all the same, having a fatuggie lecture me on what makes a man seems odd. Stick to praising your messiah, the insult game really isn't your bag.

Bert intelligence must be beyond you. Go here and become smarter:

http://www.newsvine.com/_cms/info/codeofhonor

Thinking must not be your specialty. You come across more as lack of thinking. More of being a troll. You know the kind that has nothing to say but says it anyway.

Insult you no sonny I haven't. You would know it if I had. I don't mince words. But when talking to children I try to make them understand but with some ..... it just doesn't work. Some, Bert, are to immature to even comprehend what they are talking about.

Does that include you, might, only you know.

Self righteous much? LOL, spread your BS elsehwere grandma, I've seen enough of your drivel to care less what you have to say. Fix your fellow sheep and what they have to say, then we'll talk.

Speaking of the "Code of Honor", any code or guidlines are only as good as the adherence and enforcement of the code.

NEWSVINE is sorely lacking in that regard as a relative few are allowed to post very insulting vulgar comments that are more in line with what you would find in adult magaizines instead of a respectable news site.

We all know who these repeat offenders are by the nature of their posts, so the obvious question is: Why are they allowed to post such trash? Allowing that only detracts from what this site purports to be. We should demand NEWSVINE staff ban these offenders from this site.

Bert...insulting isn't my bag?!?..Boy Howdy how often do you crawl out from that rock and log on to the vine? I am the Don Rickles of the bloggosphere! If I can't zing an insult with the best of them then who can...

Goldwater also told a Catholic pope when he chastized the world for over population "You no playa the game, you no maka the rules". And I will never forget the front page picture of him flipping off a disrespectful media.

I admired Goldwater for his independant streak - that he largely kept hidden till retired - not his intellect.

When he made his run for the presidency he simply toed the party line and paid the price. He was clearly overmatched against J.F.K.

After retirement he made many memorable remarks, but while in office he was a loyal party politician to a certain degree.

Didn't Goldwater run against Johnson in 1964?

You're right....what a mistake on my part! I knew it was sometime when I was a kid.

He was still overmatched, but in Johnson's case it was a political mismatch.

And, wasn't Johnson running on Kennedy's legacy? So, maybe you were (unintentionally) correct.

Of course Johnson finished J.F.K.'s term, so yes, you could say he ran on that legacy.

"Unintentionally correct".......a title for Jimmy Carter's next book??

Guys, keep in mind that while Johnson was not well loved by the general populous he was revered in government because he supposedly was an excellent speaker and so they, in government had a tendency to back him.

Kennedy did not do as much to promote the war as did Johnson, once he took over the job of president. Much was cloaked in secrecy at that time and ultimately led to Nixon shooting students at Kent State.

Kennedy was the first president I had voted for, but I became disallusioned with all the hypocrisy that was ongoing and would not have voted for him a second time, regardless of the Camelot that was promoted. It was more like Peyton Place.

It was a time when the American people wanted to be listened to and the government refused to hear the messaage. Much like now. I wonder if the "powers that be" are any smarter now, and their hearing any better?

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen?

Looks like it.

It wasn't a general statement about draft dodging. It was a reference to Tancredo's actual deferment. If he were not ashamed of it, why didn't he stay to justify himself? He went on the show to bash government-run health care and apparently forgot that he had a vulnerable spot.

Just because Republicans are acting like children, that does not make Democrats automatically correct or on the right path.

Wish I could say you're wrong here, but I can't. :(

I can only hope they'll be just a little bit better than the Republicans.

Id rather not rely on hope. Thats like relying on prayer to heal the sick.

Prayer couldn't hurt either.

On top of that, I also try to exhibit just a little more maturity in my responses to trolls. I'm not always successful, but I think do pretty well most of the time.

Don't give in, don't give up, don't back down. Always seek the truth and shine the light on lies.

Were you calling me a troll? And if so, on what basis?